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Project: FableQuest: Origin of the Phoenix Knight

Project Started:	30th July, 2009	Last Update:	25th September, 2011
Project Owner:	Strife	Project Members:
Project Type:	Action Adventure RPG	Project Progress:

A Big FableQuestion...

Posted 26th Aug 10, by Strife

So I had a talk with some of my play testers a while back, and a lot of them are starting to agree that the game is good enough to sell. I have thought about this sort of thing in the past, and I'm cautious about selling FableQuest as a commercial title for several reasons:

- Lack of original sound effects and heavy use of royalty-free, "use this as long as it's not for profit" sounds. It would take too long for me to go through the game and replace the copyrighted sounds with completely original ones, and they won't sound nearly as good.
- The in-game music uses soundfonts/instruments with copyright/credit terms. (Though I could probably avoid this one by distributing the soundtrack outside the game for free.)
- References to other games and franchises, including Doom, Mega Man, and Neopets, among other things.
- Use of characters that were not of my own creation (i.e. personas and the like). While I'm sure everyone I borrowed characters from would be perfectly okay with it, it'd still feel weird making money off other peoples' creations.
- If the game is sold, it will no longer be classified as freeware, so instead of being a fairly big fish in a small pond, it'll be a big fish swimming with even bigger sharks.

However, I have realized lately that my wife and I are likely to have some financial difficulties, so the thought of selling my games has been a lot heavier on my mind. I might be able to strike a compromise between what my heart wants and what my family needs by requesting donations rather than flat-out selling it for a set price. At least that way, players who really feel that I deserve a reward can provide it at their own discretion. (To avoid any legal problems with this system, I would mask the donation process as being for my website to keep it up and running, not necessarily for the game itself).

What are your thoughts on it? If I request donations, how can I go about informing players of this while avoiding legal reprecussions?

Posted by Smirnoff

26th August, 2010

Go ahead and sell it. I would pay for it provided there was a demo and I liked it. I want to support indie developers and I some day hope to be able to sell my games. You could probably find someone to help you with sound/music and those references you make probably won't be too big of a deal depending on what they are.
Go for steam.

Posted by Lazernaut

26th August, 2010

I think that if you get the copyright things sorted out (the things you listed) it's just a matter of pricing it right, and selling it in the right places.
I imagine that after this is done though, it's all about sitting back, or working on your next game, or fixing problems people encounter (if any, you say you have playtesters).

I think it's tough though with Steam having the crazy sales they've been having lately.

So basically - go for it I think.

Posted by phanto

26th August, 2010

I write this because I think you're more interested in honesty than back-patting and cheering.

I've been following your project for quite a while now. Would be very disappointing if you decide to sell it because I don't think I'd buy it.

Don't get me wrong, this game looks very high quality - for being made on a klik product by one man. Gods knows I wouldn't do any better.

There's no way you'll get to sell it on Steam. Sorry if that sounds negative but I don't think Smirnoff has his wits rooted in reality.

Your friends, people on close-community sites, game testers that are probably members from said community or other friends, are probably not the best people to ask for an objective opinion on "is this good enough to sell?" Also, of course and sadly, it's not always about a game being "good" but also of presentation and professionalism.

Regardless of your choice I wish you good luck, with both the game and your financial situation.

Posted by Johnny Look

26th August, 2010

If you want my honest opinion, I think the game looks really good but I don't think selling it would help you considerably with your financial problems. Donations would hardly make much of a difference anyway, but I think that's the way you should go.

When you decide to sell something, you are setting the bar way higher. Overall, the game looks pretty good for a freeware game, but as a commercial game it really lacks presentation and doesn't look very professional for something that people would pay for.

There is a place in the market for indie rpgs, but while they are few most of them are really good. Those are the ones you will be competing with, and looking at the screenshots they have a bit a head start and most of the time those screenshots are more than enough to attract or put people off.
But even great looking games and with everything to succeed failed. I'm thinking about the spirit engine 2 for example. It was a magnificent game and the creator had the backing of the community of the first TSE but that didn't stop it from selling very poorly.

I really hope I wasn't being too tough on you, I wish you all the best with your financial troubles.

Posted by HitmanN

26th August, 2010

Have you considered a middle ground? Let players have a version that has enough content to finish the story, and offer a 'full version' which has more content, like optional dungeons, weapons, rare enemies, etc. This way you'd be letting those people who don't plan to pay for the game to play the core game as much as they want, and those who don't want to miss on any content can pay for it. You could even consider keeping future updates to the game (aside from bug fixes) exclusive to the 'full version' customers, allowing a flow of content equivalent to DLC to be added to the game. Some people are really keen on whether they get after-service for something they've bought, and patches and add-ons can be a seller.

Anyways, that's an idea I've been toying around with, should I ever feel like trying to sell something I make. Dunno if it's a good idea, but anyways. Figured I'd share. ;P

Posted by Rick (AntiMatter Entertainment)

26th August, 2010

It sounds to me like your copyright issues are far too embedded to turn this into something you can sell, unless you're prepared to go through every single thing you've already done with a fine-toothed comb. I'd happily pay for this, though. I'll almost definitely donate when it's finished, in any case.

Posted by Kal

26th August, 2010

Rick basically took the words out of my mouth. I appreciate the time and effort you've put into this game, I'd be willing to donate.

Posted by Strife

26th August, 2010

Thanks for all the input so far, guys.

And thank you for being honest with your opinions. That's exactly why I keep coming back here for advice.

After giving it some more thought, I'd say that I don't want to sell the game as a commercial title, because as Johnny said, that puts the game in an entirely different niche. Not only that, but forcing people to pay money for the full version could actually be detrimental to the number of downloads/plays it gets - I'd get a lot more publicity from a freeware title than from a commercial title that only a couple dozen people felt the need to buy. I saw something like that happen with Renato's Galaxia Chronicles, which is painful because it's a really, really beautiful game with a fantastic story, and yet only about a hundred people or so got to experience it.

Sooo, on that note, the most I could see myself doing is requesting donations, which I think would be a pretty good idea as long as I do it the right way.

Here's what I'm thinking: The game could remain freeware, but when I put it up on my home website, I would put a Donate button alongside the download. Diefox did it with Duel Toys 2 and he didn't receive any legal repercussions despite using characters from all sorts of commercial franchises, so I think I'll be fine if I do the same.

Sound good? :3

Posted by Shiru

26th August, 2010

I'm okay with HitmanN idea.

Posted by s-m-r

26th August, 2010

For the donor-ware idea, I recommend you include a "suggested donation" amount, as well as a noteworthy "thank you gift" for donors. The exclusive content mentioned by HitmanN would work well in this case. Include several special features, gameplay modes, and/or additional media content to make the Donor status significant enough to warrant a "special edition" or some other kind of distinct status.

I also recommend you allow any game download come from your website, where the donor-ware notice will be prominently displayed.

I would discourage you from depending on indie games to provide for you financially, particularly if you've not started with that notion in mind at the beginning. Or if you do, make it incredibly distinct from all the free junk out there that the 'indie game scene' has used to establish itself as a casual/hobbyist marketplace.

EDIT: And I'm one of those types who likes to support indie developers simply on principle, regardless of the type of game offered. If someone takes themselves seriously, and has the stones to try and make some money off their blood, sweat, and tears for a reasonable fee, I'll give 'em credit for it.

Comment edited by s-m-r on 8/26/2010

Posted by Xhunterko

26th August, 2010

Basically what rick said. You have a couple t-shirts I can buy as well? I wouldn't mind buying an original soundtrack either. See if you can't get a musician to help.

Posted by Strife

26th August, 2010

Well, the game already has an original soundtrack that's being composed by myself... but if you're talking about upgraded, high-quality orchestral arrangements and all that jazz, I could find someone to remix my tunes and help me sell 'em, yeah. =D Thanks for the idea.

I've also been playing around with difficulty levels lately, so perhaps as a "special feature" as s-m-r called it, I could make the highest difficulty level exclusive only to people who donate?

Posted by Kal

26th August, 2010

Well, you could have the main game, beginning to end. Then you have unlockables available for donations. Higher difficulties, sound test, bonus dungeons, unlockable outfits, DK mode (from Goldeneye!

)...

Or, if you could even pull it off, a built-in mod program for custom sprites, dungeons, etc, but I HIGHLY doubt that.

Basically, if you were planning to make it an unlockable, release it by donation instead? Things start to get a little more complicated that way, though...

Posted by Watermelon876

27th August, 2010

It looks proffesional enough to sell in my opinion. Unfortunately I couldn't buy it because I have no moneys...

Posted by W3R3W00F

27th August, 2010

Yeah, I'd go ahead and sell it.

It looks good enough to sell, for sure.

Also, once this is done, you should show it off at TIGsource to spread the news and to get some more people interested, which could lead to its frontpaging. And that would mean even more publicity.

Btw, in case you haven't got a website, I'd go ahead and make one soon, just so it'll be more appealing for people to buy the game.

Posted by Strife

27th August, 2010

Yeah, if I can figure out how to add extra content for donators (while making it impossible for people to access the content for free unless they're pirating), then I'd totally go with the donation route.

I'd like to keep the game free-to-play at this point.

As for a website, I've wanted to make one for FableQuest for a long while now.

I have my GalaxyTrail Games website, but that's more of a general locale. I'd probably want to make a page that fits FQ's theme specifically. My wife is currently planning out a portfolio website for me, so maybe I can ask her for help with that too.

Ooh, what's this TIGsource you speak of? I'll have to look into it.

Posted by Asholay

27th August, 2010

Hitman has the best idea, legalities aside.

The best sales come from people who are already hooked on a game and would love additional content. OR if you have a very very impressive demo, which leaves players at a point which they will definitely want to continue.

Alternatively you could just work on a donation system - perhaps give a reward though, i.e. some in game cash equivilent to the donation. And make it very easy to do so as well - every stage of trying to make a payment will make people second-guess whether they really want to donate.

Chin up, and hope you sort out your difficulties.

Posted by Kal

27th August, 2010

TIGsource is kind of like the go-to for indie gaming. You can find it here: http://www.tigsource.com/

It's more of a showcase than a development site like this one. Still, if you can get publicity for it, that'd be kinda sweet.

And, one really low-tech way to get donators a reward is: accept only Paypal donations, then send a .zip file with the bonus content to their Paypal email address!

Posted by phanto

28th August, 2010

A trick would be took hook us with this one and then make us buy a sequel...

Posted by Strife

28th August, 2010

That's certainly true, Asholay. ^^ Yet another reason to make the original game free while providing additional content for donating.

Aha, I remember visiting that site a few times, Kal. Thanks for the info. =D

Phanto - Definitely a possiblity... but with the story I have planned out, I don't think a sequel would ever be as good as the original.

Posted by Rikus

3rd October, 2010

If I can give my late 2 cents, it does sound like the (c) issue is to much implemented into the game because of this I agree with the above posts to have a donation button and to give additional content to people who donate. For one I would be more then happy to donate after playing this game.

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